Memories of Canning Town Old Library: Robert John Rogers

An interview with Robert John Rogers

What time period did you visit or engage with the Old Canning Town Library?

My Dad was a Canning Town lad born and bred. I moved to Canning Town at age 7, so first I went there in about 1960, then through the years. I used the books for my studies for the Certificate of Secondary Education in 1968-1969. I did not use encyclopedias so much as they were just general information, so I would find books with more specialised subjects for History and Geography studies, as recommended by my teachers or the librarians. Then later on I actually started working for Newham Council and carried out electrical repairs there. So you could say I have known the area, Man and Boy!

When I was working for London Borough Of Newham (LBN), for a while the Housing Department became an ALMO (Arms Length Management Organisation) called ‘Newham Homes’, which was a private company owned by Newham Council. This lasted for about three years before we went back to LBN. It was so we could get money out of the Conservative government at the time!

Did you go to the library after 1969?

No, I had started my apprenticeship with the London Electricity Board, so I needed more technical books. Plus, I discovered other interests! The library was just a part of life. I left Canning Town in 1983 and moved to Dagenham, although still working for Newham, so I have no idea how the community took to any changes.

What is your earliest memory of the library?

The Children Library. And also the Reading Room where daily papers were displayed for people to read. In winter, the older people (retired) would use it for the warmth. I did not use it as it was mainly old people in there and I think it closed as the culture changed.

These rooms were the same as the rest of the Library and most local authority buildings, normally either green or brown and cream in colour! I only remember mainly the librarians and other kids.

Do you remember any of the librarians or other people who also visited the library? Do you have any stories about them?

One lady, I think she was the Chief Librarian, used to ride a Motor Bike. I was bike mad as a West Ham Speedway fan in the 1960’s so it stuck in my memory. This was not the most common thing for women to do in the 60’s (although there had been Lady Speedway riders in the 30’s, plus DR’s in both World Wars). Honour Blackman, an actress and local girl (possibly from Forest Gate?) learnt to ride a Speedway bike at West Ham, a skill she later used in a James Bond film.

What is your favourite or most vivid memory of the library?

I think growing up and going from the Children Library up to the Adult one!

How did it feel growing up and that being reflected in going from the Children Library to the Adult one? Do you remember your first time entering the Adult library?

No, it was just one of those things. You just got too old for the Children Library. I do remember it was quite a grand staircase and there was a sort of Porters office at the foot of the stairs. There was also a small parking area at the back of the Library and I used to park my firm’s van there when working in the Library.

Did you see any changes to the library and its community across the time?

The Reading Room was closed down and as computers became more and more common, less reading from books was done (although, when I need to print off anything, I still do it on the computer to proofread it!). I also think COVID was the final nail in a lot of these community types of organisation, even groups like the Royal British Legion where I am a member in Diss, Norfolk,  membership is dropping. I’m standing down this year as Branch Sect after six years.

How would you describe the library? Including its culture, community and atmosphere?

Libraries are like many community hubs (also with churches and pubs). Now with modern mass media and you keep in contact via this method, only really ring somebody on the phone for the odd catch up. So the face to face contact is mostly lost.

What school did you attend in Canning Town?

Keir Hardie (Junior) and Pretoria Secondary Modern (now called Eastlea). Before moving to Canning Town, went to Susan Lawrence School (there is a tower block named after her at Manor Park). Both were socialists. In fact, Susan Lawrence took part in the Poplar Rates Strike in the 1920s along with the likes of George Lansbury and Davy Adams (friends of my Grandfather and in fact my Mum knew Lansbury as ‘Uncle George’!). Politics do run closely with local history.

Please share about Newham History Society, how did you first hear about it and then join?

Kathy Taylor, who was the manager at the Railway Museum at North Woolwich, was a member so I found out about it from her. The Newham History Society began in 1971 and was formed by the historian and head librarian Frank Sainsbury.

What did you do in your role as Vice Chair of Newham History Society?

General organising and supporting the Chairman. I studied on and then did a talk about West Ham Speedway and Paddle Steamers at a couple of the meetings. I also did a public speaker course as a part of my work with LBN as you had to talk at Tenants Association Meetings. We also took the ‘show on the road’ at times to other historical society events, including helping at the pop-up museum at Stratford in 2012 for the Olympics.

At the time of building for the Olympics, Kathy Taylor who worked for Heritage Services and was the manager at the North Woolwich Railway Museum, did talks to the work force on the Olympics Site to shed some light on the history of the area to them.

What is your favourite aspect of the Newham History Society?

Learning, socialising and spreading the word on the fantastic history of Newham. As well as speakers we would go to other groups’ events, such as Barking, Chadwell Heath and Tower Hamlets History Groups as well as events at both East ham and Forest Gate Libraries. So we would meet other groups, teach them and learn from them, a sort of exchange of information.

Why do you think these groups were so active at the time and there was such an interest in Newham and local histories?

I think with the advance of computers and ordinary people could trace relations, local history had a surge of interest.

How does the old committee and members still keep in touch now? It sounds incredible, why is it coming to an end this year?

The committee at my time moved on. Three of us to Norfolk, one to Suffolk and the Chairman moved to Blackpool. This led to a new committee being formed with, as far as I know, just two of the old committee still there (Kathy and Bill). Newham locals Alderman Bryan Collier and Bill Brown would be able to give you better info on the new Committee and the Society as I left nearly 8 years ago.

I am still in contact via WhatsApp and the odd phone call with Kathy and Bill, and of course Mel as one of the admin for the Facebook page. The Society has dwindled like most of these sorts of Societies have in this day and age, especially with the computer where you can sit in the comfort of your own home and ‘Google’ more or less anything you wanted to know, rather than having to go out at night for a speaker. Mel, our ex secretary who created the Facebook page, also does a lot with her local History Group in Norfolk. I do bits for our Local History Group in Diss, Norfolk. There is also the Royal Docks History Group, which still meets, but now not so often. Marieta will be able to give you more information on that.

Please tell me more about your memories and knowledge of politics in the local history – did your Grandfather or Mother get involved in strikes with Davy Adams or at any other points? Did you yourself get involved in any political organising, banner making, town halls for example?

Mum was not old enough to take part in the Poplar Rates Strike. Apparently, Grandad used to make the rosettes worn by the likes of George Lansbury, when they would speak on street corners (which were normally green, not red). Mum was not politically active. An interesting point was at the start of WW2; Mum wanted to join the services, but as she was under 18 she had to get her Dad’s permission. But as he had seen the horrors of WW1, he refused, so Mum ended up in the Land Army. She was invalided out owing to stomach problems and ended the War working at the Co-Op.

So no, I learnt from both Dad and Grandad not to get involved in union politics!! Grandad said that the unions were the best of a bad lot. Dad said you put your heart and soul into supporting your members for very little thanks, but a lot of moaning!!

Do you know if the library held any political events or activities in the 80s, 90s or 2000s?

No idea, but it was said that Eleanor Marx, the daughter of Karl Marx, did speak in the Public Hall next to the Library. Plus the Docks strikes of the early 1970’s held many meetings there.

Thank you so much for sharing so many fascinating memories and historical knowledge. Are there any other memories of being a Canning Town kid you would like to share?

My local history is family history and was our view of the world as it went by. There are other stories, like Grandma Gregory clutching a day old chick to her blouse to help it keep warm and survive. Remember, this one little bird may grow up to give eggs and may one day end up as a Sunday roast, a hard fact, but true in the hard times.

Grandad Gregory in happier times standing at the Blackwall tunnel and watching the coaches all making their way to Southend on a Saturday evening for the illuminations. In sadder times, my mum remembers him coming home with feet bleeding after he had to walk the streets looking for work.

Mum being chased by a bull when in the Land Army and freezing cold mornings hand-picking vegetables. Dad telling stories about the war, always the funny ones, never the horror of warfare. Grandma Rogers bringing up seven children between the World Wars with Granddad Rogers at sea as a ship’s engineer. What stories she could have told.

Grandad Rogers making the ultimate sacrifice, standing no chance as an Air Raid Warden against a V1 Flying bomb. For this act of bravery defending the people of West Ham, they named Rogers Road after him. Many of the streets of the Keir Hardie estate are named after Civil Defence workers. Uncle Jack, with his Lancaster Crew on what was to be the final bombing run to Germany; their graves are now at a little bit of England in a foreign field.

Christmas time in Rathbone Market

Christmas Eve in the old Street Market was a time of wonder. The stalls would be illuminated by gas lamps, which would splutter and spit. You had stalls selling hot chestnuts and Sarsaparilla drinks. As the evening turned into night the stall would start to sell off the meat and fruit cheaper and large crowds would arrive. Despite this cheaper meat, some could still not afford it, so people would keep chickens and rabbits through the year, feeding them on scraps. At Christmas they would get somebody to kill them (my Grandfather Gregory was one of these people). The sight of chickens and rabbits (and some geese’s) bodies hanging up after being plucked would turn anybody into a vegetarian!

Guard Geese

On the subject of geese; Clarks Coaches, who were based in Beckton Road at Canning Town, used to have geese guarding their yard rather than dogs. Geese being used for this purpose go back to Roman times!

Make your own Christmas tree

As money was short with low pay and unemployment, you could not afford many luxuries, even at Christmas time. One of these luxuries was a Christmas tree, but my Dad had the answer. In the days of real trees, the marketplace would have loads of bits of branches lying around which the stallholders did not want. My dad would collect these large bits and make a tree!

Fruit in those days would come in thin wooden crates which were bound up with wire which was thrown away. Also the fruit was wrapped in coloured and silver paper, again thrown away.

He used the wire to bind up the branches to form a tree; he would then roll up the coloured paper into balls, with a little bit of wire as a hanger, and hang these from the tree. Finally a star would be made of cardboard and covered in bits of silver paper. In these days of ‘dancing lights’ and a thousand and one different novelties, this may sound poor, but to a child this tree was fantastic.

In loving memory of my father, John Arthur Rogers (1924-1986) a Canning Town lad born and bred.

Re-cycling (or green policies)

The ‘new’ idea of being ‘Green’ and recycling items is not new, the East-End has done it for years! Clothes would be passed on to younger members of the family. Once clothes have been patched up many times and were beyond all hope, they would be torn up and used as cloths.

Young girls would ‘rescue’ some of these clothes, and with a little needlework (taught in school), make dresses for dolls.

Tea would arrive in tea chests, and once emptied would be sold on for a few pennies. These would be made into dolls houses for girls and forts for boys. The scrap remains of wood would be burnt on open fires in the homes.

Some of the white clothing would be used as pudding cloths; cheap meat or leftovers from Sunday dinner would be wrapped in thick puddings and boiled to make a very filling meal.

Gardens and Allotments

With people working long hours in the dirt and noise of factories, gardening became very popular. As well as the fresh air, flowers would brighten up the dull grey working landscape.

For those who did not have Gardens or wanted more space to grow, Allotments were the answer. These were areas of underdeveloped land or land which could not be used. My parents had one at Millwall on what was called the Mudchute (the site of what is now Mudchute Farm.) The mud chute was created when they ‘shoot the mud’ which came out of the West India and Millwall docks when built in the 19th century.

You could spend many a happy Sunday in the fresh air and sunshine (it never rained in them days, as all kids of the 50’s & 60’s will tell you!!!).

Allotments were mainly used to grow vegetables, which gave you healthy food, and as you grew them yourself it went a long way to feed a family on the cheap.

You as a kid could watch the adults swapping seeds etc, if one had more than they needed; they did an exchange with somebody who had something else in excess. Again education, you learned the value of more than money, as this was the old bartering system, which had been used for centuries, plus a bit of nature study.

All the family helped, and you would always take a little extra home if you knew somebody in the street was having a hard time.

An old East End Christmas (Mother’s memories)

Street markets such as Rathbone Street (originally called when it opened ‘Rag & Bone Street in what became the Silvertown Way’) and Crisp Street market would stay open until midnight on Christmas Eve. It was a part of the Christmas fun just to be in the market at night with the sounds of the Costermongers (the true Cockneys) selling their wares.

Christmas toys were normally hand made. Old tea chest which could be bought for a few pennies, and were turned into Forts and Dolls houses. The small scrap bits of wood would be used to make furniture for Doll Houses. With many factories in the area being part of the ‘Rag trade’ (clothing manufacturers), bundles of ‘off-cut’ material which could be bought, again for a few pennies to make dolls clothes.

Although money was tight, every effort would be made to buy new clothing for Christmas. Usually it was a new topcoat; this could hide the old clothes underneath. It was common for men to buy a new cloth-cap for Christmas (my Granddad always did, a tradition that continued till he died aged 72.)

The Salvation Army Choir would sing carols on a street corner. The local church would have their own band, plus choirboys, each with a lighted candle walking the street and singing.

Young Children from the Sunday school would gather round a decorated crib to view the Baby Jesus and the animals of the stable.

On New Year’s day as the clock struck twelve and the New Year began, ships in the Docks saluted the New Year with their horns. Local school Children in Poplar would be given a treat of a free film at the Grand Cinema. They were also given an orange, an apple, plus a marzipan sweet fish, which they would be expected to take home to their Mother.

So that’s an old East End Christmas, would the children of today want to swap? NO CHANCE!

This information I collected from my mother who died at 88 in 2011.

Epilogue

That’s about it for History & Memories; I hope this and the other bits I sent would be of some small help. It may raise long forgotten memories in others. People may even remember things slightly different as time does change what you think you remember.